New Kingdom Rapier Rules Draft

TdB · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:30 pm

Luther Magnus (Kingdom Rapier Marshal) writes:

Quote:

Alrighty gang, here is the final draft of the rules list. please feel free to
circulate this but when you do, please include the statement below. Thanks for those
who were helping me on this, and for those of you who will now spread the joy of the
new rules to all!

Here are some things you should know...

All of the major changes have been discussed, in person with their Majesties, and
they agreed that they were good.

The rules as they stand now, are ready for sign off from their Majesties, pending
the populace's review of them.

What are the big changes you ask, well, here is a summary:

1 - Knee walking, for both Melee and Tourney. When you are legged, you may choose to
drop to your knees and move. The other options (posting, sitting on your bum) are
still valid.

2 - No two handed weapons. Those are the realm of cut and thrust combat, period.

3 - Quillion and Handle length restrictions return (12 inches for the quillions, 8
for the handle)

4 - Cuts are redefined... specifically the last rule set did not allow that a
draw/push cut to have any percussion... well, that's just wrong. A cut may have a
limited amount of percussion when it initially make contact with the body, but there
must also be a draw portion to it. If the percussion is too much, the fighter
delivering the cut should be informed, BUT the cut is still valid.

Weapon and Armour standards were rewritten to be more in line with society (shield
sizes max stayed, and the above limitations are the only deviations from society).

All feedback should be sent to rapier-marshal@antir.sca.org

I will not respond to everything, but will review each email.

The New rules draft is here

Johannes_of_R · **Joined:** Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:12 pm **Posts:** 9

I really appreciate this notice.

May I ask: is there a central discussion forum for that notice? Specifically, I'm curious about the "Knee-walking" part. This means that we will no longer forfeit a bout if we rise up from the position where we're sitting on our feet? More than that, we will be allowed to move about the field in the same fashion that heavies do? Following that, if a combatant gets an otherwise valid cut on the thigh of the person who is on their knees, do they then lose the use of the "knee-walking" maneuver or are the left-over-legs invalid targets?

I don't really have any feedback, so I don't know about using the given email address for these questions. I'm just wondering about the mechanics of this change in combat.

TdB · **Posted:** Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:34 am

Discussing it here is fine.

My understanding of the rule change regarding knee walking is the same as yours. I don't know if a second leg blow prevents knee walking as it does on the heavy field. It's a good question.

LutherMagnus · **Joined:** Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:41 pm **Posts:** 2

There is no longer a restriction in the Rules for lifting your self on your knees (its difficult to knee walk otherwise).

At this time, a second hit to the legs does not prevent further knee walking. It was discussed, but I did not feel it was warrented at this time.

Luther

Johannes_of_R · **Joined:** Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:12 pm **Posts:** 9

thank you for the answers. I appreciate the clarification.

TdB · **Posted:** Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:02 pm

Does the rule on blade traps mean that my new darkwood dagger is illegal in An Tir?

The quillions are angled slightly so that a blade can slip out pretty easily, actually, even if I were to try to trap a blade in there.

LutherMagnus · **Joined:** Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:41 pm **Posts:** 2

No, quillons like that are not prohibited.

This is a society level rule that was never really carried down to our ruleset, but in reality, it is intended to be broad enough to be inclusive.

Kristophe · **Joined:** Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:58 am **Posts:** 31

Don Luther,

Firstly, let me state that I think this is an excellent revision to the ruleset. I think some of the changes will make things alot more interesting in the coming months.

A few points I noted however:

Items A.2 and B 1.2.3 are redundant. While there are some differences in intent the text is functionally nearly the same:

A.2:
...However, no matter how clear or accurate, rules cannot replace common sense, good judgment, and concern for the participants. If a question arises when applying these standards, choose the answer that promotes the greatest degree of safety for all participants.

B 1.2.3
... No matter how clear or accurate, rules cannot replace common sense, good judgment, and concern for the participants. If a question arises when applying these standards, choose the answer that promotes the greatest degree of safety for all participants.

The following section discusses blade standards for damage etc. It's then subtexted for the test for flex. That doesn't really flow and should probably be it's own line item. Worst case, some idiotstick will read it that even though they have an S-curve, so long as it flexes right it'll still pass.

Section B 2.2.5.A

Any blade with kinks, sharp bends, or cracks shall not be used. Steel blades that develop
these defects cannot be repaired and must be retired.
a. If doubt exists about a weapon's flexibility, an acceptable field test is: Hold weapon parallel to the ground, supporting handle against table or bench if necessary. Hang a 3- ounce weight (85 grams) just behind the tip. If the blade of a dagger (out to 18" blade length) flexes visibly (more than 1/4 inch <6 mm>), the blade is sufficiently flexible. For a rapier blade (greater than 18"), the flex must be 1/2 inch (12 mm).

Section 3.1.3 (PG 12) lists the MM equivalent of 4oz leather but several lines later lists 10oz without said conversation. Granted it's obvious but we may as well be consistent.

I note that Corkscrewing is no longer listed as a definition. With the ability to move while legged is this now removed as a concern or is it now a convention?

The rules discuss the drop test (Pg 12, armor standards) but do not include instructions. This has always been (in my opinion) an oversight as it requires new fencers to source a completely different set of rules on another website (the main Society rules). It is my belief (probably unpopular) that Antir rules should be self sufficient. What about adding it on as an appendix much like the approved blades list?

TdB · **Posted:** Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:17 pm

Did this get written into law before Vik and Inga stepped down, or are we still operating on the old ruleset?

Guillemin · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:38 am

As far as I've heard, it's still a draft

rapier.avacal.org

New Kingdom Rapier Rules Draft

Who is online